Curse

pingu666 · Jan 12, 2007, 05:14 AM // 05:14

well, 3

first off, the damage bow, ive got a perfect 5/1 vamparic mod, and marksmanship +1 20% mod

, mostly intend to use these for spamming barrage, and other spamish stuff as a r/mo, or as a r/w with flail, which would be the best bow type to go for?

shortbow is consistant, recursive is quite nice, flatbow is ok, but the miss rate and high arc and long flight time arent so great. i use a zealous one already for barrage

hornbow might be the joker, lower rof but 10%AP might swing it. im intending for this tobe my "nuking" bow, as i already have various bows and mods (+al and hp etc)

i also have a daze/silence lengthing string, so im thinking that would be sweet for a interupt build?, broad head arrow and concusion shot are expensive, so a recursive or shortbow with +5energy would be ideal?

finaly my other ranger is a trapper/beastmaster, would the wintergreen bow be the best (apart from longbow for pulling

) for someone who will only invest pocket change into marksmanship (15^50 inscription, or 5e) with some extra armour and some random string i got spare like fire, AP. i dont think the zealous or the vamparic is worth it as ill just be attacking 1 foe, and with the chances to miss etc, not really worth it..

XvArchonvX · Jan 12, 2007, 05:45 AM // 05:45

I would suggest putting the Vamp mod on a flatbow and using it with builds that have Fav Winds or Read the Wind in them (such as most barrage builds).

A Marksmanship +1 20% grip will only give you about +1 damage on one of every 5 attack skills. While this is the only bow grip that can add to your damage output, the extra damage added is next to nothing (even less than a Sundering String).

The silencing string is probably best on a recurve or shortbow to use with any builds that use BHA or Concussion Shot.

As for choice in bows, shortbows are generally best used in a few builds that really make use of them (i.e. Choking Gas + Practiced Stance), while a recurve is usually the best choice for any interupt based build.

I also assume you mean that you have a Candy Cane bow and not a Wintergreen Bow since the latter was only granted to those who won the Wintersday Tournament if I'm not mistaken. In this case, the CC Bow acts as a recurve and is not as good as a long/flat for pulling, but is a fine choice for any build that uses no marksmanship.

Hope that helps.

Amy Awien · Jan 12, 2007, 08:28 AM // 08:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by pingu666

... only invest pocket change into marksmanship ... and with the chances to miss ...

Marksmanship does not affect your chance-to-hit (or miss). A vampiric string would give some reliable amount of damage, without points in marks you will get next to nothing from basic bowdamage.

Thom Bangalter · Jan 12, 2007, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Some math Ensign did says hornbow with an IAS gets the most out of your barrage, and history always seems to prove Ensign right.

Generally speaking, Shortbow and Recurve are the two 'best' bows, since shortbows have the quickest refire rate and recurve has the lowest arc/shortest arrow flight time. I generally go with +5 energy on all my recurves as I'm generally playing builds that don't require my DPS from skills/autoattacking to be all that high.

Dr Strangelove · Jan 12, 2007, 08:54 AM // 08:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by pingu666

well, 3

first off, the damage bow, ive got a perfect 5/1 vamparic mod, and marksmanship +1 20% mod

, mostly intend to use these for spamming barrage, and other spamish stuff as a r/mo, or as a r/w with flail, which would be the best bow type to go for?

shortbow is consistant, recursive is quite nice, flatbow is ok, but the miss rate and high arc and long flight time arent so great. i use a zealous one already for barrage

hornbow might be the joker, lower rof but 10%AP might swing it. im intending for this tobe my "nuking" bow, as i already have various bows and mods (+al and hp etc)

i also have a daze/silence lengthing string, so im thinking that would be sweet for a interupt build?, broad head arrow and concusion shot are expensive, so a recursive or shortbow with +5energy would be ideal?

finaly my other ranger is a trapper/beastmaster, would the wintergreen bow be the best (apart from longbow for pulling

) for someone who will only invest pocket change into marksmanship (15^50 inscription, or 5e) with some extra armour and some random string i got spare like fire, AP. i dont think the zealous or the vamparic is worth it as ill just be attacking 1 foe, and with the chances to miss etc, not really worth it..

For barrage, I prefer a recurve or a flatbow. Yes, a hornbow does squeeze out that extra 4ish damage per hit, but it loses out on arrow speed and range, making it not quite as attractive for interrupting or staying out of the fray. Also, for PvE, a hornbow just doesn't find as many uses as other types, and ends up wasting inventory space most of the time.

I wouldn't really bother with a 20% +1 mod. No matter how far you stay back and how good your frontline guys are, you're going to take damage. Better to be able to shrug that off instead of dealing 1 extra damage per hit.

I have a 15 over 50 silencing recurve for dazing builds. I suppose a +5 energy would be helpful since you're relying on others to do damage, but I'm lazy and uncreative, so meh.

I used to use a shortbow most of the time, but it's fairly important to be able to attack from further away, for hitting things on or from cliffs, or being able to interrupt the backline caster without running into a big mob. A flatbow with rtw or fav winds will outperform a shortbow in almost every case. Besides, monsters don't dodge the arrows much.

For a beastmaster, I hear that a staff works well and allows you to control your pet better, but I suck at that, so I use a zealous flatbow. Helps keep up the energy and sends the pet in from a long way away. Give both a try and see which works for you.

I would suggest a +20 energy staff as well, for trapping, touchies, and beastmastery. You'll get more mileage out of it than you'd think.

pingu666 · Jan 12, 2007, 09:43 AM // 09:43

yeah, ive got a mindclouder on him

, while marksmanship doesnt effect miss chance, but u get misses from stances, them running, blind, hexes etc, for what it would give me from vamp/zeal its not worth it imo, as i doubt id really benifit from it...

currently i have a zealous flatbow of defense, plus others with hp/al, so im covered for that

i think the marksmanship +1 will give +1 from the attack skill bonus damage, +x due to the extra marksmanship attribute, and a increased chance of a critical

anyways off to bed for me, and thanks for the replies

Silk Weaver · Jan 12, 2007, 09:47 AM // 09:47

Candy Cane bows are short, I believe.

pingu666 · Jan 12, 2007, 09:58 AM // 09:58

ps, quick test on my wammo with wild blow and a axe, from 14>15 is worth 2-3 extra damage. curiously i always got the same number with wildblow and a +1 axe mastery 19% grip

Amy Awien · Jan 12, 2007, 04:17 PM // 16:17

I think you always get a critical hit with Wild Blow and a critical hit always yields the same damage (roughly 2x max) against one target. It's a great way to test, btw.

Jetdoc · Jan 12, 2007, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

I also assume you mean that you have a Candy Cane bow and not a Wintergreen Bow since the latter was only granted to those who won the Wintersday Tournament if I'm not mistaken. In this case, the CC Bow acts as a recurve and is not as good as a long/flat for pulling, but is a fine choice for any build that uses no marksmanship.

Both the Wintergreen and Normal Candy Cane Bows are short bows, not recurve bows. I've tested both of them on the targets in the isles.

Cathode_Reborn · Jan 13, 2007, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by pingu666

ps, quick test on my wammo with wild blow and a axe, from 14>15 is worth 2-3 extra damage. curiously i always got the same number with wildblow and a +1 axe mastery 19% grip

Wild Blow is an unlinked skill. Your axe mastery won't make it do any more damage. You can easily test the +1 axe mastery with Decapitate since it always makes a crit hit

+1 mods suck so much, they really need a buff =/ I don't even use those on my MM.

Random Dude · Jan 16, 2007, 06:15 PM // 18:15

recurve bow is ideal for interupting since it has the least flight time

jacen110091 · Jan 18, 2007, 11:09 AM // 11:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

I would suggest putting the Vamp mod on a flatbow and using it with builds that have Fav Winds or Read the Wind in them (such as most barrage builds).

Why would you put Read The Winds on a barrage build?
Barrage removes all preps, right?

____________

anyway I have a question too,
I'm gonna be starting a variant of the popular Holy Barrage build soon -

Judge's Insight
Vigorous Spirit (cover enchant)
Barrage
Penetrating Attack
Savage Shot
Troll Unguent
Storm Chaser (or Fav Winds or Smite Hex etc...)
Whirling Defense (or a Rez skill)

So according to wiki on vamp mods, a shortbow and a flatbow give .5 life stealing per hit (2 secs) and the recurve bow gives .08 (2.4 secs) but Barrage will mean much more than one hit, right?

Right now, I'm looking at a Vampiric ____ bow of Enchanting with a +5 energy base mod (or "I have the Power" Inscription)

So based on the build I've posted above, would manner of bow would you guys recommend?

Amy Awien · Jan 18, 2007, 02:27 PM // 14:27

He referred to Read the Wind in general for use with flatbows and Favorable Winds (for flatbows) when using Barrage.

The vampiric string is used more for the extra damage then for the healing. The bowgrip of enchanting looks fine but I'd choose a +15% damage inscription (+15%/-5E). Energy was never a problem with the Judge's Barrage.

XvArchonvX · Jan 18, 2007, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Energy stability with Judges Insight depends on how often you have JI up. If you have it up constantly, you will almost definately have energy problems. If you don't, then you probably have high expertise and lower than max Marks, which will lower your dps and make your damage more reliant on your enchant then your actual attacks (which is bad since enchants can get stripped easily).

Outside of FoW, however, you are probably better off with a simple Conjure build.

Amy Awien · Jan 18, 2007, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Mhh, from what I remember JI is a 10E every 18~20 seconds with medium smiting and a bowgrip of enchanting. JI isn't what eats your energy. But jacen has skills from 5 attribute lines, so it might be a bit thin.

XvArchonvX · Jan 18, 2007, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Mhh, from what I remember JI is a 10E every 18~20 seconds with medium smiting and a bowgrip of enchanting. JI isn't what eats your energy. But jacen has skills from 5 attribute lines, so it might be a bit thin.

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Judge%27s_Insight
The max you will get is 18 seconds. If you are putting in a full 12 Smite, then you will either have less than max Marks (which will lower your dps) and have almost no expertise, or have medium expertise and medium marks.

Also, JI is not affected by expertise, so you are spending 10 energy out of an energy supply of 30ish on top of the energy you use to spam barrage. If you support this with a Zealous Bowstring, then you lose out on 5 damage per arrow that could be gained from a vamp string.

jacen110091 · Jan 18, 2007, 09:24 PM // 21:24

I've thrown in my attributes as -

Marksmanship: 12 +1 + 3
Expertise: 8 +1
Smiting: 9
WS: 5 +1

(Also, Healing Prayers 2 but like I said, Vigorous Spirit is more of a cover enchant than an actual heal-spell)

At 9 Smiting, I get 15 secs from the JI (18 secs with the 20% enchant mod)

With Druid's Armor, the +5 Energy weapon mod (and a pair of attunement runes if need be) I should have about 40-ish Energy and 3 pips of regen... Considering my basic spamming will be on Barrage only (3.2 energy at 9 Expertise) I think I'll be okay . .

(If not, I'll take Expertise to 10 (9+1) and get rid of my 2 WS skills and use HB (at 3, I'd get +4 regen for 12 secs))

Edit:
Although Storm Chaser can be a pretty effective E-Management spell under the right circumstances...

Amy Awien · Jan 18, 2007, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Breakpoints for 5E skills like Barrage are at 8 and 13 expertise, it serves no purpose to increase it to 10. Witht the cover enchant, JI becomes expensive and, IMO, more cumbersome then usefull. Enchantment removal is the biggest weakness of JI.
Favorable Winds and Winnowing are alternative ways to increase your Barrage's damage output.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Judge%27s_Insight
The max you will get is 18 seconds.

At 9 smite and with a bowgrip of enchanting it's around 18 seconds, add the 2 second cast and it's 10E in 20seconds or .5 E/sec. Barrage costs 2E (at 13 Exp), at once every 2 seconds that is 1E/sec. You'd run dry in approximately 1 minute of countinuous use, which is rare.

The 20% AP of JI alone will (likely) increase damage-output more then the (minor) reduction in marksmanship costs and the "maximize marksmanship dogma" does not hold, although I'd not invest too much in smiting.

jacen110091 · Jan 18, 2007, 10:58 PM // 22:58

So what would you recommend then?

Keep into consideration that I'm not going into very heavy areas (DoA, FoW etc . .) Infact, I'll probably only go to the Ruins of the Tombs with this build at the very most... (with a party, maybe even a battery hero, I dunno)

Also, going back to my original question -

" Vampiric ____ bow of Enchanting with a +5 energy base mod "

Flat (with FW) or Recurve or Short?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

Some math Ensign did says hornbow with an IAS gets the most out of your barrage, and history always seems to prove Ensign right.

Link?